Resume Basics Part 3 - What To Include In Your Resume

[00:00:00] Welcome to another Successful Encore Career podcast being brought to you by Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging, Nationwide Insurance, Innosource, and our special episode sponsor The Resume Coach. I'm Brett Johnson, a longtime volunteer with Employment For Seniors. And with me is Employment For Seniors' Executive Director Carol Ventresca.



[00:00:21] We are in the middle of an incredible series of podcasts on creating resumes and you know it's it where started chuckling going well we should have probably done this first. But I think that this is a wonderful way for us to get information in small pieces so that we can help our clients methodically work through creating their resume because it's so important not just so that you can apply for a job but that you're going to be a great job seeker and a great interviewee because you're going have a good handle on all of your skills and accomplishments by the end of this. So our series of podcasts are including things like you know what's the basic information we include or not include on resumes our accomplishments statements and individual bits and pieces and all that they include that should be on your resume so we've already gone through what's the purpose. Resume formats, lengths, appearances on the last podcast. We did a lot of detail on what's the contact information what should you have on there what are summary statements those are critical on or on a resume. And a great conversation about that. So hopefully you've also heard that podcast and work experience. When do dates go in? How long and how far back are your work experiences. All of those are important pieces. So today we are going to conclude that area that section on what to include in a resume and that it will. We'll talk today about volunteer experience and the value of volunteering in education and training. The big issue is what not to include on a resume. So let me introduce our guest today Sharon Hamersley is the Principal Coach of The Resume Coach, where she helps job seekers conduct a 21st-century job search. And Sharon is also a longtime supporter and volunteer for Employment For Seniors and the Career Transition Institute as well as a facilitator for our career search workshops here at Employment For Seniors. Sharon welcome again to our podcast programs.

[00:02:41] Thank you Carol. And you know we've had some really good conversations so I'm looking forward to our conversation today wrapping up what you should and should not include in your resume.

[00:02:53] Right. So we're going to get through this and we want to make sure that everyone knows this is the third in this podcast series. So if you were referring back to go back to those previous podcasts catch up with us and let's talk about all of the bits and pieces that are important in your resume. So one section that folks are sort of lost with a lot of times is that notion of a volunteer experience. And I used to always tell my students you can be a volunteer packing a box at a food pantry or you can be a volunteer at that food pantry and coordinate other groups coming into volunteer or donations or events. So a whole different ball game in terms of the experiences that you're getting from that volunteer experience. So let's talk about that. So Sharon one of the most important things at Employment For Seniors is our volunteer corps. So we talk a lot about our volunteers and how wonderful and very professional they are. And we actually did a podcast on volunteer so refer back to that. But I think that individuals don't see the value or understand how valuable you can learn new skills and hone skills in a voluntary experience. So when do you differentiate that it's a volunteer experience or work experience? And how do you put those onto a resume.

[00:04:23] That's a great question. I tell people that the only difference between being a volunteer and an employee is the money going into the bank often volunteer experiences are extremely valuable as part of your work history. If you think about it perhaps at some point in your career you've volunteered for a c near a current event or organization and you're providing your services pro bono for instance. I know of people at transition institutes their financial people they volunteers treasure what could be more important than Treasurer because those are the money folks. They tell you whether you have money in the bank. And really when you do something pro bono it's it's like MasterCard says you know everything else priceless. It is actually priceless. And volunteers are priceless. So if you are doing significant volunteer work pro bono in your field that can actually go as a regular experience on your resume. In fact right now if you're in between positions and you're looking for a position but you're volunteering in an area where you have significant skills I tell people just put that on your resume as a regular experience. That's what you're currently doing. And I think Carol you've recommended this for our Employment For Seniors'volunteer.

[00:05:59] Absolutely. Our Employment For Seniors volunteers and I can't even tell you how many have come in volunteered done a fabulous job but found a job and we lose them. But that's OK. That's our business that's what we're supposed to be doing. But our volunteer counselors are critical to not just the operations of the agency but to each individual client who comes in to see us and get them on a job search on the right path. How much more valuable that can be and they're using very high-level skills to do that. They can put that on a resume. We put it right up there at the top of experience. As long as they designate in their title that they were a volunteer there's nothing wrong with that and an employer understands that.

[00:06:51] Yes. Many employers actually like to see this type of experience on a resume whether it's featured under your experienced section or as a separate section under volunteer experience because most employers really our community minded they have their own initiatives. They see if they see that you're already involved in the community they know that when they call on you as part of your employment also to step out into the community and be a volunteer that you're more than willing to do so. Right. So I think that that's very important. And also if you think about it for a minute if you're currently looking for your next position employer will often ask you So what are you doing with your time while you're looking for a job and looking for a job is pretty much a full-time job in and of itself.

[00:07:43] We all know that. But just to be able to say I'm helping Employment For Seniors. I'm one of their volunteer counselors right now. And you know I've had over the past 10 weeks when I volunteered with them I've actually interacted with 25 clients and help them get started on their job search. And I think that makes a really good impression on an employer.

[00:08:10] You know the other thing too from the standpoint of a mature job seeker there are often times that you want to update some skills and it's really hard to do if you were if you don't know where to look. I mean it's not that it's hard to update skills that can be done but if you don't know where to look if you come into an agency and say I need to update this skill is there anything that you need to have done that matches I can be learning. I am willing to give you my time to learn and you'll get this job this task done. And so sometimes it's really the only way somebody can increase their skill level so that I think that that's it's a great message to an employer that somebody is willing to go over and above to learn something new and to be better prepared to be a great job seeker.

[00:09:07] Yes that's definitely a win win both for the job seeker and for the next employer and for the agency right. The job seekers volunteering at. Absolutely yeah.

[00:09:18] Well next we want to look at the education and training section. And I think as a mature job candidate you can attack that much differently than just get a young coming out of college having nothing to fill in that section.

[00:09:32] A lot to play with here. Yes, you do. You know new college grads. They often. What's their degree? It's coming up or whether they just got it. They lost that first. And that's perfectly appropriate for them. But as a mature job seeker that information becomes less critical the further it is in the rearview mirror. So there are several ways that you can approach this. First of all, you definitely need to list all of your professional certifications. For instance, if you have an R.N. license you need to list that it's current in the state of Ohio and maybe you have an R.N. license. You maintain our licenses in other states. But you needed. You definitely need to list that license with the state of Ohio the license number and the date that expires if you are for instance a project manager and you have project manager certification. Where did you get that from? You know and how current is it. Some people get a certification and then they let it lapse. Financial planners, they have to have certain like Series 7 series 61 I don't know what the numbers are. And they do have to keep those current through continuing education. So all of those are very very critical. So and then if you attended college or university if you graduated you list your highest degree first. But if that was if you got that degree some time ago you don't need to list a date. This is one place where dates are but. Are not required and actually should not be listed. So let's say that you graduated with a with an MBA. So you just put MBA the Ohio State University and if you have a concentration in finance or marketing or whatever it is you could list that.

[00:11:32] But then there's a question that I often get too from people. Well you know I went to Ohio State for two and a half years but I never completed my degree. So what should I do about that? And there are a couple of different strategies here and there are some pros and cons about all of them. If you were attending college and you were studying towards a degree and it's in the area that you're now seeking employment in and maybe you've actually been employed in that field you're just kind of got hired and you never got around to finishing your degree. You can still list that degree without any dates at all say the Ohio State University coursework in finance marketing and business administration and that's what you're working in now. So that that all works very well. Some employers may be a little hesitant about this. This is the con they may say well OK so why didn't you finish your degree. And then you need to have a really good answer for that. You know most of the time it's simply well you know somebody thought that I was a really good hire. And you know I would like to get back to my degree at some point but right now you know I've got all the qualifications you need. So you do have to be a little bit careful about that. And then finally the whole thing about high school or GED some job postings specifically mentioned high school or GED in that case you know high school diploma while high school. No date. Great. Yes. So that's what you need to put in terms of your education and training.

[00:13:23] One thing too if they've had college time even if they haven't finished college they don't have to put high school because the assumption is you can't go into college unless you have a high school degree or GED. So you don't like again take up space take up real estate. If you don't have to but I think that the over arching message in this section is not just that I've taken coursework and you're going to check and see with Ohio State or wherever I went to school that I actually got my degree. The message is that employers have jobs that need to be done. You need to show not only you can do the job day one but that you have the capability of growing with that job of learning more of being willing to learn more and having the capability of learning more. So this section is included not just that I went to school and finished in 1980 but that I have done other things. I've been a lifelong learner. I've taken up opportunities to learn more and continue to do that and that's important for me.

[00:14:31] Yes especially if you if you seek certifications in various fields right. Or if you take coursework even like on Coursera let's say that one of the qualifications for the job is advance Excel use and actually you haven't had much experience with that but you've gone on Coursera and you can prove that you completed whatever requirements there were for that advanced Excel course that you took through Coursera and if asked few could actually show that interviewer charts and tables and other things that you've developed using the knowledge that you gained in Excel from that Coursera course.

[00:15:12] Exactly. And there are a lot of those kinds of bits and pieces of requirements and position descriptions that would be hard for somebody to get.

[00:15:23] And these are easy ways to show that you can do that job and that you're willing to do whatever it takes to learn something that maybe you don't quite fully know at the staff because your job is going to change. You could be ready to do that job on day one. But. Over the course of your work there something's going to change and you're going to have to learn new things. Right. Exactly.

[00:15:48] Exactly and I have to say that there are a lot of our mature job who do that and a lot of them sort of give me the glassy-eyed look when I tell them they need to keep learning but it's a really important thing. And I I I have the impression from talking to employers it's going to become even more important as time goes on. So even if you are working right now listeners don't make an assumption you're going to be in that job forever always assume that you need to continue learning. And that's you know Sharon and I worked together at Ohio State so you could tell where two academic sitting here. Now we have gone through all of the bits and pieces of what has to be on a resume. There's a huge list of things that should not be on a resume or that are kind of up in the air. So give us some ideas.

[00:16:40] Ok. So one thing I sometimes see when I review resumes is people will include their hobbies and I say Well OK why did you include your hobby.

[00:16:51] And they say something along the lines of Well I thought it would make me a more well-rounded person and that the employer would like that. Now maybe not. OK. If you're applying for a master gardener job you better have a one-acre garden and that's not actually a hobby anymore. Right. Very much so. But other than that really an employer could even see that as you know well I wonder how much time they spend on this. And you know if their hobby is Game of Thrones are they going to be playing it on the job.

[00:17:27] That's a true issue. Yes. That is not the message you want to send across. No. So where did that section why did that section exist then why. Why. Because traditionally it's always been there. Obviously, we're talking about it so it's been there for who knows 100 years. I'm wondering if it may have started where gentlemen who were really good at golf wanted to work for people who are really good at golf. I mean it could be very simple as that I don't know. So I see this being more emphasize a volunteer hobby. Yeah. And again a real resume is real estate. You use the space the best way you can and hobbies are not going to get you the job unless there is a really true direct connection and that doesn't help and to offer.

[00:18:12] Yeah that really does not happen that often. So then there are some other areas that get to be very tricky on a resume. You should not include any information to the extent you possibly can about being what's called in legal fees a protected class and that includes anything like racial-ethnic background national origin religion sex although we can sometimes determine that especially age if over 40 especially familiar status and any sort of physical or mental challenge or disability. All of those things can. You may say well they're going to figure out my age probably but there are things that we discuss that you can do that. And they're probably going to figure out whether I'm male or female. Maybe but that that shouldn't be the focus of it. Now some things get really tricky because you may be volunteering for a religious organization a political organization an advocacy organization and that can get really tricky because generally speaking, we try not to bring our politics to work in our religion to work unless it's specifically unless the company or organization itself is specifically oriented to that direction. So what I recommend to people is if they, for instance, were the volunteer for a capital campaign for a new wing on their church that they simply list that volunteer capital campaign for my church I manage a team of six volunteers raise 750 thousand dollars. Now that's pretty impressive. And at the point at which you actually go into the interview, you're probably going to have a reference from one of those some somebody on the leadership in that organization and that's great. So by then, it shouldn't be an issue. It's just a matter of finessing that initial step when you don't really know who you're talking to next. So that can be quite a challenge.

[00:20:38] Sharon I just thought of something that's sort of the flipside. Yeah. So if a candidate has worked for a political organization political campaigns for state-local parties whatever yeah and suddenly they don't want to do that anymore. Yeah. Then you're talking about. OK well you know I was in this party and people who aren't in that party are going to hire me. So again maybe that's functional resume. Yes, come into play which we talked about in the first podcast so that the emphasis is on the accomplishments and your skills as opposed to where you worked. Yes. And that's a very good point. So that would be something to again think about. And for listeners remembered functional resumes are not easy to do. And they have a place. So just work with somebody who's a really good resume coach or an agency like Employment For Seniors to work through that process of developing a functional resume.

[00:21:40] That's a great suggestion. And then there's a question about any sort of disability. And again that's a tricky question. If the if the disability does not affect your ability to do the job in any way there's no reason to disclose. Now sometimes and I'll use myself as a personal example. I have a little bit of hearing loss and it would be very challenging for me to conduct an interview with somebody if we were in a noisy room. So at the time of the interview scheduling what I would probably say to the person helping scheduling interview is just so you know I do best in interviews when I'm in a quiet setting. I don't even mention my hearing loss. I just say I do. I do best so I'm hoping that maybe you can accommodate that and that's all you really need to say right now.

[00:22:40] This section as all of the sections truly are ways of showing an employer that you're the best candidate. So it's always done in the best light with the best information that you can give without being negative or pigeonholing yourself into any little cubbyholes such as age or gender. And it's you only give the information that you have to and it's always done in a positive light.

[00:23:08] That's correct yes. And I think that's the whole purpose when you get down to what the resume is really all about. That's all purpose of a resume. You're always putting your best foot forward and you're telling that potential employer why it is that they really need to have you on their team. And I will make this point too. If an employer for any reason seems to write you off because of anything on your resume and whether it's age or anything else that you put on your resume that may actually not be a good fit. So I I always say to people well if if the employer wasn't really cool with the fact that you were maybe a little older than their average candidate that says that doesn't the same about you that says something about them. So literally you want to put your best foot forward and you want to really find that employer match that employer that's right for you. And the resume is a critical piece of that wonderful.

[00:24:18] So if we wanted to summarize all the bits and pieces that go into a resume from when we talked at the last podcast about contact information and experiences and the summary statement the volunteer experience education training. What would you say are the top like three or four tips that you want to give to our listeners.

[00:24:39] I would say the first tip and this is this is just this actually goes without saying is be truthful. Yes. Be positive but be truthful.

[00:24:53] There there's a whole probably millions of threads out there among recruiters on various blogs. And web pages and things about what they discover about candidates that's not true.

[00:25:05] Right. And so you want to be truthful but being truthful doesn't mean hiding your light under a bushel either. And actually that's what's going to be our next podcast is talking about how not to hide your light under a bushel. How did discover and write and explain your accomplishments. So number one be truthful. But number two don't hide your light under a bushel. Be confident in what what you're saying and doing. And I think the fourth tip that I would really give is to make sure that you know that really you make a big effort to understand that employer's needs. Because if you understand that employer's needs and you are a good fit and you articulate that that really will bump you up in terms of their willingness to want to talk to you and maybe even offer you the job.

[00:26:03] Those are great great tips. I'm going to add one more and that is don't be afraid to get help on your resume. You don't do a resume by yourself. You have to have other sets of eyes seen it not just for the typos and the grammatical errors but just to make sure that you are getting all of this great information into your resume.